Jelani Cobb writes about race, politics and history for The New Yorker. He is also the dean of Columbia Journalism School and the author of The Substance of Hope: Barack Obama and the Paradox of Progress.

The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on July 5, 2022. It has been edited for clarity and length.

This interview is being published as part of FRONTLINE’s Transparency Project, an effort to open up the source material behind our documentaries. Explore the transcript of this interview, and others, on the FRONTLINE website: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/lies-politics-and-democracy/

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